TEALE FENNING Medical Education    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  mrcog courses for doctors SSM's and ATSM's Goto page 1, 2  Next          TEALE FENNING Forum Index -> Subspeciality Training & Special Skills Modules View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Geeta Suri Joined: 31 Oct 2006 Posts: 7 Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: SSM's and ATSM's I'm sure everybody knows by now that come August that for new ST 6 and 7's SSM's are being replaced by ATSM's. In the past it was considered to be useful, but not compulsory to obtain 2 SSM's by the time you obtained your CCT. With the new training programme it's not a question of number of ATSM's but rather the number of credit points available for each one. It will now be compulsory to obtain a set number of credit points ( the number of which hasn't been made public yet) in order to obtain your CCT. The credits seem to be weighted more heavily towards obstetric topics and there will be a number of ATSM's(currently all obstetric!) that will be in a group where it will be compulsory to choose at least one. The other thing that we've been told is that you may not have a preceptor in that particular topic based at your local hospital, rather there may only be one in the region who will oversee your training. Given the difficulties that some trainees have had with trying to complete their SSM's we wait to see how the new system is going to be implemented Back to top Nick Raine-Fenning Course Director Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 1852 Location: Nottingham Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Hi Geeta This actually makes more sense and may end up making life a bit easier. As you say it will be interesting to see how many credits are available and necessary for each one and the overall distribution of ATSMs between Obstetrics and Gynaecology. I oversee one of the only SSMs in gynaecological scanning and realistically even with the best will in the world can only have 2-3 people at any one time. Seeing as this takes the best part of a busy year that means most trainees miss out. Not having a single preceptor or any preceptor is not great but also makes sense as all of us are different. Having examined the subfertility SSMs I have seen a wide range of trainees and their experiences are all different. Some have no idea and should be awarded their SSM but to date I am not sure how often this happens? Has anyone actually failed an SSM? Being self-responsible for your training makes sense and is the way forward. This is what we did in the old system during years 1-3 so this is just an extension to cover the more specialised aspects of training. Personally I strongly recommend that anyon wanting a good job still considers getting a degree, doing subspeciality training, or training as an academic. The latter was my chosen route and whilst most people do not consider this option it is an excellent career path and will open up lots of possibilities in the future I can assure you. _________________ "Teale Fenning Medical Education" delivering evidence-based, exam-orientated learning since 1997 Last edited by Nick Raine-Fenning on Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Do you know how they will then select trainees for ATSM's if there are more trainees than preceptors in the region for a specific ASTM? _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top rpeevor Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 28 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: In some regions, though not with us at present there has been a competitive nature to selecting people for modules. i.e. skill assessments or interviews. In our region it is generally not a problem from my experience on the STC. Rich p.s you wont have a problem B! Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Thanks Richard Have interview for MSc minimal access next week at Uni Surrey, so hoping STC puts me somewhere with a preceptor! Still no idea where I'm going in April Take care B _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top rpeevor Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 28 Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: I do!! Give me a call if you like.. On call in Winchester today.. reg on call. Richard Back to top Abik Century Club Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 243 Location: Poole Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Hi, have just finished registering - is a bit long winded but made it! (By the way thanks for a great weekend, the esaay course was good!) I am having trouble getting good advice about career planning from any consultants, even the RITA was no help. I know I'm supposed to have a good idea of what I want to do by now but I'm having too much fun with everything! Where can I get good advice Abi Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: A skippers course at Parkstone yacht club for our Greek island cruise? Hope this means you're better & the labour ward's quiet! Seems I'm off to Pompey for my sins...that should make my mind up one way or the other........ _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top Nick Raine-Fenning Course Director Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 1852 Location: Nottingham Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: bronwyn wrote: Do you know how they will then select trainees for ATSM's if there are more trainees than preceptors in the region for a specific ASTM? We now run a competitive programme or at least I do for gynbae scanning. I think this is only fair and ensures the whole thing is a two-way process as most candidates selected competitively have been asked or have promised to deliver something i.e. a small research project or review article. I would try and modify your CV to show how and why the skill is important in your career. Be prepared to defend yourself when asking to do anything other than the labour ward module in view of the recent College statement and job climate / market. It really fits in with Abigails question or indecision about careers. You do need to decide what you want do first and then select your SSMs or ATSMs. As a consultant body we prefer we trainees who seem to have a plan (and we know the truth as most of us were in your place and confused) as opposed to the 'collectors' who constantly pester you to do every module there is. Personally I would still strongly recommend a higher degree first and then possibly sub-spec training or some time as a lecturer. You would then be well placed to chose whichever module you want. What is the MSc Bronwyn? Is there a Masters course in MAS? _________________ "Teale Fenning Medical Education" delivering evidence-based, exam-orientated learning since 1997 Back to top Nick Raine-Fenning Course Director Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 1852 Location: Nottingham Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Abik wrote: I am having trouble getting good advice about career planning from any consultants, even the RITA was no help. I know I'm supposed to have a good idea of what I want to do by now but I'm having too much fun with everything! Hi Abigail and welcome. You have to think how you want your life for the next 25-30 years - seriously! The best way to do this is to look at your consultants and seee who you would most like to be like or more appropriately whose job would you want? There are a few important things you need to ask yourself ... 1. Do you want to do Obs, Gynae, or both? Do you mind dropping one if you had to? 2. Do you want to be up at night or called often or worse still resident on call, even if working a full shift and having days off in return? 3. Do you like operating? 4. Do you want to do private practice? 5. Would you consider an academic career? (most say no but it is a great life - I'm biased I know) 6. DGH or Teaching Hospital - this is less important as you can always change but best train for the teaching hospital to be safe and keep options open. What did you think about my suggestion of emergency gyanecology? We will see a definite expansion in these jobs although not to the same degree as has happened with labour ward. Food for thought! _________________ "Teale Fenning Medical Education" delivering evidence-based, exam-orientated learning since 1997 Back to top Nick Raine-Fenning Course Director Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 1852 Location: Nottingham Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Abik wrote: Hi, have just finished registering - is a bit long winded but made it! Was it really that difficult? Tell me what you had to do and if it can be improved. We do need double e-mail entry (I think that is what we have) to put off the spam posters and drug sellers! Abik wrote: By the way thanks for a great weekend, the esaay course was good!) Pleasure. Glad you liked it. _________________ "Teale Fenning Medical Education" delivering evidence-based, exam-orientated learning since 1997 Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Hi Nick Yes, a Masters in Gynae minimal access at Uni of Surrey overseen by perceptors from BSGE. An excellent programme incorporating clinical skills & application of research methods. See link: http://www.bsge.net/members/documents/MSC-Advanced-Gynaecological-Endoscopy.pdf or look at the link on the BSGE website B _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top Nick Raine-Fenning Course Director Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 1852 Location: Nottingham Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: That looks absolutely excellent - I know two of the guys and they are good chaps who are both fun and yet very clinically sound and practive evidence-based medicine. Tempted myself but quite happy not doing severe endometriosis - life is too short!!! Good luck - I hope you get it. Tempted to set up a Masters course in TV scanning. This may be a good model to follow. I would be interested to know more if you are successful. Back to top Abik Century Club Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 243 Location: Poole Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject: Bron, where do you find these gems? (the endoscopic Msc course) Good luck with it! Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: "Tempted to set up a Masters course in TV scanning. This may be a good model to follow. I would be interested to know more if you are successful" What a fab idea I will be your mole Do you know if there's a "gynae scanning society" coming soon? At the mo' the only SSM that has no governing body.................... Come on Nick!!! _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top Abik Century Club Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 243 Location: Poole Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: thanks for the career advice. Emergency gynaecology does sound interesting. Do you know where I can get some more information? (P.S. how do you get those quotes up in your message? Its not in the FAQ) Abi Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Abik wrote: (P.S. how do you get those quotes up in your message? Its not in the FAQ) Abi I've been wondering the same and just figured it out! At the top right hand corner of every post is an icon that says "quote" which if you hover over it says "reply with a quote" and if you click on it will create a neat box with a quote. Not bad for a blonde hey? B _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top bronwyn Century Club Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 144 Location: Alton, Hampshire Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:39 pm    Post subject: Nick, I've been trying to find out from the College but no luck as yet: If you're a year 3 reg going into year 4 in April, do you need to apply for a SSM now and convert to ATSM in August? Will the "credits" Geeta referred to earlier apply? Will they be the same modules as currently produced by the College in the form of SSM's? I'm B _________________ Bronwyn Bell SpR Portsmouth Back to top Abik Century Club Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 243 Location: Poole Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: bronwyn wrote: Not bad for a blonde hey? Not bad at all - cheers! Abi Back to top Nick Raine-Fenning Course Director Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 1852 Location: Nottingham Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: bronwyn wrote: Nick, I've been trying to find out from the College but no luck as yet: If you're a year 3 reg going into year 4 in April, do you need to apply for a SSM now and convert to ATSM in August? Will the "credits" Geeta referred to earlier apply? Will they be the same modules as currently produced by the College in the form of SSM's? I'm B I actually have all the modules on my PC and they are different. I would just register and I am sure you will simply be converted. Gynae Scanning Society - interesting idea Makes sense I guess. Doing quotes etc - whatever you want to do you can use the automatic settings at the top (make it bold, italic, larger, coloured etc) or get to know the code - it is easy. You use square brackets like these [ ] and put something in them to start whatever effect you want. To finish the effect you do another set of brackets but add a back slash in first like this [ / ] but it all has to be without spaces. So if you want to make the next bit bold you do the above but put a 'b' in the brackets. For italics you use an 'i', underlining a 'u' etc. To quote you simply write the word quote like this ... [quote] text goes here [*quote] but replace the * with a / Have a go - it's fun! If you want to link a url you can use the same formual as follows [url] link goes here [*url] but replace * with / If you want to be clever you can link through a text / message as follows [url=www.rcog.org.uk] text goes here [*url] and replace the * with a / Get the message? _________________ "Teale Fenning Medical Education" delivering evidence-based, exam-orientated learning since 1997 Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         TEALE FENNING Forum Index -> Subspeciality Training & Special Skills Modules All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum Announcements----------------Forum AnnouncementsExam InformationCourse Announcements Examinations----------------MRCOG Part 1: EMCQsMRCOG Part 2: MCQ & Past Paper questionsMRCOG Part 2: EMQs - Extended Matching QuestionsMRCOG Part 2: Short Answer EssaysMRCOG Part 2: Objective Structured Clinical Examination - the OSCEDRCOG: the Diploma ExaminationMFFP: Membership of the Faculty of Family Planning and Reproductive Health Care of the RCOGPLAB: The Professional and Linguistic Assessment Board test General Discussion----------------Open ForumRCOG News & UpdatesThe Study Buddy SchemeKey Facts in O&GGuidelines & ProtocolsRecommended ReadingUseful WebsitesThe Market PlaceHow things work in the UKHow do you say that? Teale Fenning Courses----------------Our UK CoursesOur Overseas CoursesOur Correspondence CourseCourse AdministrationCourse FeedbackAccommodationOther Courses Training & Career Development----------------Basic Speciality Training in O&GSubspeciality Training & Special Skills ModulesAcademic TrainingResearch & AuditThe Curriculum Vitae or CVInterview SkillsMedical EducationPublication & Presentation SkillsTraining Courses, Conferences, & MeetingsThe Job MarketClinical Attachments  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group