| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
 Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
RCOG Sponsorship Schemes
Please note that the Double Sponsorship Scheme (DSS) will only be open for applications up until 30 September 2007.
Due to the General Medical Council’s New Registration Framework, the current regulations for both the Overseas Training Fellowship Scheme and the Double Sponsorship Scheme will no longer be valid after 19 October 2007.
The RCOG has submitted a revised template for consideration by the GMC but until this is accepted the RCOG sponsorship schemes are disbanded with effect from 30 September 2007.
Mr Geoff Cochrane
Sponsorship Officer |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rpwalavalkar
Teale Fenning Administrator
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 966
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rpwalavalkar wrote: | the current situation is like a sand storm, once the sand settles roads will become clear. nothing is fixed either way yet.
|
Roads are getting a bit more clear --
RCOG update #31 (Aug 2008) --
| Quote: | The uncertainties surrounding the roles for the Medical Royal Colleges and the NHS as major contributors to International Medical Education continue to cause concern.
Currently about 40% of the NHS medical workforce undertook their undergraduate training overseas. In anticipation of a significant increase in medical graduates from UK universities, the Government introduced legislation reducing opportunities for International Medical Graduates (IMGs) to train within the NHS. However, the door has not been completely closed.
The International Doctors Training Scheme (schemes 1 and 2), co-ordinated through the RCOG International Office has the approval of the GMC. One scheme is Trust based and the other RCOG based. Successful application will allow a visiting trainee up to a maximum of two years study and work within the UK. The Postgraduate Dean must support such appointments.
Indeed, a selection process occurred at the RCOG for IMGs, about six weeks ago, under the leadership of Dr Mani Das FRCOG, the Overseas Sponsorship Officer. Thirty four applications were received, mainly from Egypt and Sri Lanka and to date twenty six appointments have been made. The quality of the successful applicants was very high. Eight committed consultants reviewed the structured application forms.
The RCOG will continue to fulfill an international role in education, training, assessment and standards-setting that is appropriate to individual countries and communities. However, there continues to be a desire for IMGs to come to the UK to learn about our clinical systems, clinical governance, audit and practice of medicine. Wherever I visit, I am constantly requested to facilitate training opportunities for local trainees. The experiences that are requested include:
1. Pre-membership training as for the current double-sponsorship scheme
2. Shorter assignment for special interest training eg. colposcopy
3. Exposure to subspecialty training organisation and work. Such a system is not available at present but will be discussed with the GMC
I believe that we have opportunities to assist many of these doctors. I am informed of the many gaps in our own service provision, due to various causes of absence for trainees including maternity leave, out-of-programme experience, etc. Such planned absence could be filled by an IMG at the appropriate level of training. They require the same educational facilities and privileges enjoyed by UK trainees. We need to be imaginative and anticipate opportunities. For more information about this process, please contact Miss Joan Hayman jhayman@rcog.org.uk .
Tony Falconer
RCOG Vice President
|
_________________
Dr Miss. Raj Walavalkar MBBS MRCOG
TealeFenning Administrator
SR O&G Wessex Region |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Immigration problems |
|
|
Please click on the following link and read on....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/07/immigration.visas?gusrc=rss&feed=uknews
Expel immigrants after four years, says report
Skilled non-EU workers should be repatriated when visas expire, say MPsToby Helm, Whitehall editor
The Observer, Sunday September 7 2008
Skilled immigrants from outside the European Union should be sent home when their four-year visas expire to limit the United Kingdom's population growth and ease pressure on public services, according to a controversial cross-party report by MPs.Tackling the politically explosive subject of immigration quotas head on, the study, headed by Frank Field and Nicholas Soames, former Labour and Tory ministers respectively, will call on ministers to balance the number of immigrants entering the country against those leaving.At present, the vast majority of non-EU entrants granted visas to work in this country stay on after they expire and are allowed to settle permanently. The Home Office is refining an Australian-style points system under which the number of immigrants from outside the EU will be restricted to those with suitable skills and qualifications.But critics say the system still amounts to an 'open door' for immigrants as no overall quota is imposed
and rules about what happens after visas expire are not rigorously enforced.Under the Field-Soames model, the only chance non-EU immigrants would have of staying beyond their visa period would be if immigrants proved they had 'exceptional intellectual, scientific or artistic merit' and did not breach a new annual quota - to be set at 20,000 - which would include dependants.The report, drawn up by Migrationwatch, will be published ahead of a Home Office announcement on Tuesday revealing more details of its points-based permit system. It is expected to say that if immigrants wanted to extend their stay in the UK they would have to apply through a second points system. Only if they had 'exceptional' skills or qualifications, and their staying did not mean breaching the quota, could they stay.Field has long criticised Labour ministers for shying away from the immigration debate for political reasons, allowing the resulting problems of overcrowding and
pressure on local services to mount. He warned two years ago that politicians had to begin discussing the problem in a grown-up way - before the British National Party took advantage.'It is only because the BNP are so inept that the debate has not taken off,' Field argued.The report, called 'Balanced Migration', claims such measures would limit England's population, now 51 million, to 65 million by 2050, compared with current projections suggesting it could rise to 78.6 million by the middle of the century.Habib Rahman, chief executive of the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants, said: 'These proposals completely ignore the positive contribution migrants make to life in the UK. As well as much-needed skilled workers, many come and do unskilled jobs that need to be done, but for which employers are unable to find home-grown workers.' Figures issued last month from the Office for National Statistics found that inward migration to Britain had reached its highest level since the current method of counting was introduced, with 605,000 long-term immigrants arriving in the year to mid-2007. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rpwalavalkar
Teale Fenning Administrator
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 966
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cpeed,
you have some what digressed from the point. we were not speaking about all migrants in general, but about training opportunity for a small population of O&G, who wish to train in UK. there has never been a guarantee or promise to absorb people into the system and the country. even when the old system was in place, overseas doctors came on 'permit free training' and needed to be in the country for 10 yrs on this visa or on 4 years of work permit (later changed to 5 years) before some sort of naturalization occurred, even after this the citizenship was never a given . visitors have always been given 'VTN' = Visiting training numbers, these have never guaranteed a consultant job at the end or indeed a citizenship. the really good ones got thru and have stayed on. it is also a question of luck and personal choice.
the point was about doctors wanting to train here, the RCOG has now opened one way, and if you are good and satisfy the rigorous selection criteria of the college, then a training opportunity is still available.
system changes in this country seems to follow a circle and these again are early days and one needs to wait to see how things develop.
r
p.s-- what doesn't make sense to me is that some one with 'asha' in their name should be so pessimistic.  
p.p.s -- good explanations with Nick's G6PD mcqs. when are you taking the monster by the horn then? ( i meant the part 2 )
_________________
Dr Miss. Raj Walavalkar MBBS MRCOG
TealeFenning Administrator
SR O&G Wessex Region |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Raine-Fenning
Course Director
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1852
Location: Nottingham
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would have to agree with Raj in terms of not being so pessimistic although I totally understand why you may feel this way.
I am absolutely sure there will be possibilities here and the system will not work without overseas trainees. In fact it seems we need more and more! I think Raj is right about having to satisify the requirements though but I imagine most people will do. Some may struggle, especially if there English and general communication skills are not up to scratch but one thing I have realised over the last 15 years is that there is little doubt about the level of knowledge most overseas trainees possess and their eaherness / willingness to learn more. UK style practice requires UK experience so some awareness should suffice and the 'nitty gritty' day to day stuff can be learned when in place here.
Stay positive, work hard, and I am sure you can achieve whatever you so desire.
_________________
"Teale Fenning Medical Education" delivering evidence-based, exam-orientated learning since 1997 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Actually, Raj, I have to disagree about your assumption about my posts. I think you have not been able to understand my point or I have not been clear enough.
My posts have nothing much to do with pessimism at all. It is just to make sure people who are coming in come with full knowledge of the reality of the situation.
Just to confirm, my post is not digressing from the point of the original post in any way. The original post is about International training on OBGyn and none would disagree with the fact that an important and integral aspect of international training in all specialities incluidng OBGyn is immigration and visa.
And my posts are not my imagination / predictions and therefore they do not reflect anything about what I feel.
My posts are simply what is already published in the media. One should only take a look into some IMG forums to get an idea of what currently people are going through in terms of visa application/extensions.
I totally agree | Quote: | | Stay positive, work hard, and I am sure you can achieve whatever you so desire. |
Also be in touch with reality and focussing efforts where they can help bring fruits goes a long way in succeeding.
One should also be aware that these posts are to cover gaps in service provision and may not necessarily mean "training" (as will be the experience of a considerable proportion of trainees who are not in run-through training/training number as in the past).
Last edited by cpeedahsa on Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:41 am; edited 5 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Nick,
I decided to move to the US after completing one year of SpR training in South east of Scotland Deanery and have never had to look back.
Luckily for me things have gone on comfortably and am doing a fellowship in Clinical Genetics with a focus on Reproductive Genetics.
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | I would have to agree with Raj in terms of not being so pessimistic although I totally understand why you may feel this way.
I am absolutely sure there will be possibilities here and the system will not work without overseas trainees. In fact it seems we need more and more! I think Raj is right about having to satisify the requirements though but I imagine most people will do. Some may struggle, especially if there English and general communication skills are not up to scratch but one thing I have realised over the last 15 years is that there is little doubt about the level of knowledge most overseas trainees possess and their eaherness / willingness to learn more. UK style practice requires UK experience so some awareness should suffice and the 'nitty gritty' day to day stuff can be learned when in place here.
Stay positive, work hard, and I am sure you can achieve whatever you so desire.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rpwalavalkar wrote: | | -- what doesn't make sense to me is that some one with 'asha' in their name should be so pessimistic. |
It is not pessimism. Just to clarify, it is called reality.
The schemes definitely look very attractive. For those who want to come to the UK, not to just work for 2 years to cover service gaps; but want to come to the UK to enter into substantive training( and many of them do)---they should know the other side of the coin too-- an equally important side about immigration and visa.
Last edited by cpeedahsa on Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rpwalavalkar wrote: |
p.p.s -- good explanations with Nick's G6PD mcqs. when are you taking the monster by the horn then? ( i meant the part 2 ) |
The monster-- Just do not know how to fit it into my work schedule. Not even sure if I am ever going to take it.
Participating in the forum is mostly for the sheer joy of it---an addiction to solve the MCQs.
I complete my fellowship in Clinical Genetics in 2010. I am also simultaneously working on my cytogenetics fellowship and a physician executive MBA. Time is always a huge constraint. Also the MRCOG 2 is not going to add for any extra credits in the USA --so a certain amount of reluctance.
I am planning on a going into academics-- am looking to work with the NIH. If not, likely to continue here in Tufts New England Medical Center in Boston, MA or will move to Philadelphia which has a good reproductive genetics unit.
Last edited by cpeedahsa on Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Raine-Fenning
Course Director
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1852
Location: Nottingham
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cpeedahsa wrote: | | One should also be aware that these posts are to cover gaps in service provision and may not necessarily mean training (as will be the experience of a considerable proportion of trainees who are not in run-through training or (training number as in the past). |
This is a very important point and I have to agree with you. It is somewhat embarassing as a UK resident and 'trainer' that I / we make this so readily evident but to some degree one cannot ignore the market which is fluid and fickle and ultimately about service proivision and cost saving (within the context of quality of course) and not necessarily about the people who deliver that service.
It is very interesting therefore that you decided to move to the States. Good for you. Tell me more. Reproductive medicine with a genetic interest is an excellent choice and one that I am sure will serve you well. Where are you based and what is your current situation? Do you need to take the MRCOG? Will this help or is there somewhere in the back of your mind the possibility of returning to the UK? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | | cpeedahsa wrote: | | One should also be aware that these posts are to cover gaps in service provision and may not necessarily mean training (as will be the experience of a considerable proportion of trainees who are not in run-through training or (training number as in the past). |
This is a very important point and I have to agree with you. It is somewhat embarassing as a UK resident and 'trainer' that I / we make this so readily evident but to some degree one cannot ignore the market which is fluid and fickle and ultimately about service proivision and cost saving (within the context of quality of course) and not necessarily about the people who deliver that service.
|
My point exactly.......This could not have put it better. | Quote: | | Service provision and cost saving |
.
Just so long as those who want to come for these so called posts are fully aware of the stark reality that these are posts created to cover gaps in service provision;
and that they can be thrown out as and when they are not necessary with no adequate notice. Even otherwise there is a cap on the maximum allowed time(2 years)
That is an extremely important thing to keep in mind before investing on the move in terms of money, time, energy that is involved in moving into the UK. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | | It is very interesting therefore that you decided to move to the States. Good for you. Tell me more. Reproductive medicine with a genetic interest is an excellent choice and one that I am sure will serve you well. Where are you based and what is your current situation? Do you need to take the MRCOG? Will this help or is there somewhere in the back of your mind the possibility of returning to the UK? |
I was probably writing the post above when you were posting yours.
Not sure if I will take the MRCOG. Mostly because it does not benefit me here in the US.
Who knows...I might ... just for fun, and if I can squeeze some time for preparation. No plans right now. I shall keep you posted when I do...will take some tips:) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Raine-Fenning
Course Director
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1852
Location: Nottingham
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cpeedahsa wrote: | Just so long as those who want to come for these so called posts are fully aware of the stark reality that these are posts created to cover gaps in service provision; that they can be thrown out as and when they are not necessary with no adequate notice. Even otherwise there is a cap on the maximum allowed time (2 years)
That is an extremely important thing to keep in mind before investing on the move in terms of money, time, energy that is involved in moving into the UK. |
Yes - quite.
Please do be aware, as I am sure you are, that I know of no one who agrees with all of this. All my colleagues and those that I know at the College are 100% against the new measures. The prsident is from Sri Lanka for Gods sake! O&G is where it is because of the support we have had from overseas graduates and that should never be forgotten.
The government make up the rules and one would have to agree that jobs should go to UK residents if there are sufficient numbers of suitable candidates. However one now needs to consider the UK is not an 'island' anymore and anyone form Europe has the right to apply and work here. It is a shame that that does not extend to further afield. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nick Raine-Fenning
Course Director
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1852
Location: Nottingham
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cpeedahsa wrote: | | Who knows...I might ... just for fun, and if I can squeeze some time for preparation. No plans right now. I shall keep you posted when I do...will take some tips:) |
Why not indeed!
I have some other ideas that you may be interested in as well. I have just been commissioned to write 4 books for Part 1 and Part 2 and need some help. Keen? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | | cpeedahsa wrote: | | Who knows...I might ... just for fun, and if I can squeeze some time for preparation. No plans right now. I shall keep you posted when I do...will take some tips:) |
Why not indeed!
I have some other ideas that you may be interested in as well. I have just been commissioned to write 4 books for Part 1 and Part 2 and need some help. Keen? |
Absolutely, that would be great. I am in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | | cpeedahsa wrote: | Just so long as those who want to come for these so called posts are fully aware of the stark reality that these are posts created to cover gaps in service provision; that they can be thrown out as and when they are not necessary with no adequate notice. Even otherwise there is a cap on the maximum allowed time (2 years)
That is an extremely important thing to keep in mind before investing on the move in terms of money, time, energy that is involved in moving into the UK. |
Yes - quite.
Please do be aware, as I am sure you are, that I know of no one who agrees with all of this. All my colleagues and those that I know at the College are 100% against the new measures. The prsident is from Sri Lanka for Gods sake! O&G is where it is because of the support we have had from overseas graduates and that should never be forgotten.
The government make up the rules and one would have to agree that jobs should go to UK residents if there are sufficient numbers of suitable candidates. However one now needs to consider the UK is not an 'island' anymore and anyone form Europe has the right to apply and work here. It is a shame that that does not extend to further afield. |
Yes, I know that many do not agree with the the new measures.
Every country has the right to have its own policies. I will try not to yield to the temptation to indulge in a debate on this, on this forum.
It suffices to say that the *use and throw* system is wrong.
Last edited by cpeedahsa on Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | | cpeedahsa wrote: | | Who knows...I might ... just for fun, and if I can squeeze some time for preparation. No plans right now. I shall keep you posted when I do...will take some tips:) |
Why not indeed!
I have some other ideas that you may be interested in as well. I have just been commissioned to write 4 books for Part 1 and Part 2 and need some help. Keen? |
Not sure if you remember, we did infact discuss something towards this end last year too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cpeedahsa
Century Club
Joined: 21 Apr 2007
Posts: 921
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nick Raine-Fenning wrote: | | cpeedahsa wrote: | | Who knows...I might ... just for fun, and if I can squeeze some time for preparation. No plans right now. I shall keep you posted when I do...will take some tips:) |
Why not indeed!
I have some other ideas that you may be interested in as well. I have just been commissioned to write 4 books for Part 1 and Part 2 and need some help. Keen? |
Nick,
I am waiting to hear from you about this |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
